Poker advice?..

[burrfoot]

Hiya good OLBGers. I got whacked out 1st in 2nites tourney and was wondering if anyone can see if I cudda/shudda got away. I guess I already know the answer cos I kinda knew i was beat, but was my call terrible? Should I of played different earlier streets? Basically 5 way unraised pot and I flop flush wie open ended str8 flush draw, so bet it. 1 caller. Ace on turn, diff suit, so i bet again, nan raises wot i thought was that she had A hearts for the draw and now had hit another ace so i just called. The board paired on river so now Im thinking house, check then call allin. Out to a bigger flush

LOL writing this up Ive just realised wot bad play it was, but would still value comments

- gruffe sitting in seat 1 with $1506.66
- gutshot_1 sitting in seat 2 with $1130.00
- Burrfoot sitting in seat 3 with $1550.00
- nannypud sitting in seat 4 with $1976.68
- Amy01 sitting in seat 5 with $1410.00 [Dealer]
- jwoodywoody sitting in seat 6 with $1396.66

jwoodywoody posted the small blind - $10.00
gruffe posted the big blind - $20.00

** Dealing card to Burrfoot: 6 of Hearts, 5 of Hearts
gutshot_1 folded
Burrfoot called - $20.00
nannypud called - $20.00
Amy01 called - $20.00
jwoodywoody called - $20.00
gruffe checked

** Dealing the flop: King of Hearts, 7 of Hearts, 4 of Hearts
jwoodywoody checked
gruffe checked
Burrfoot bet - $140.00
nannypud called - $140.00
Amy01 folded
jwoodywoody folded
gruffe folded

** Dealing the turn: Ace of Clubs
Burrfoot bet - $190.00
nannypud raised - $380.00
Burrfoot called - $380.00

** Dealing the river: King of Clubs
Burrfoot checked
nannypud bet - $1140.00
Burrfoot went all-in - $1010.00
nannypud shows: Queen of Hearts, 3 of Hearts
nannypud wins $3160.00 from the main pot

BTW Im big enuff to take all the criticism...
_________________
2008 OLBG S.H.O.E Poker Champion

poohbag ate my hamster

[burrfoot]

Cheers Scrazz,
I think Ive got it sorted in my head now - if only I had spent a few extra seconds thinking about it at the time (However I really had nan on ace hearts rag - doh!) I think the only way I could of won the pot was with a cheeky raise preflop into the unraised pot, whereby nan mighta folded. I prob wouldnt of got any callers on the flop, but its deffo better to win small pots than lose big ones!
It was nan that went allin and I called but I get your point.. (especially so early in tourney!)
Many lessons learnt including its kinda cathartic to dissect hands u play badly, will have to do it more often. Tho I'll spare me the blushes u all the boredom and do it privately!
Burr
_________________
2008 OLBG S.H.O.E Poker Champion

poohbag ate my hamster

[jwoody]

I think it definitely was one of those unlucky hands. I don't come up against opponents with bigger flushes in such situations as much as the average player because I choose not to play as high a proportion of lower ranked suited connectors than most, that's one way you can reduce the amount of times you lose to a bigger flush on a board with 3 suited cards; infact I'd say when I do face an opponent with a flush, I have the higher ranked flush card a big majority of the time.

Another way of minimising your risk would be to check the flop or turn, thereby trying to reduce the number of betting rounds your opponent has to build a big pot; quite possibly if you had checked Nan might have checked too (or put in a smaller bet than 140) not wanting to scare away her opponents, or maybe she might check hoping someone else would open the betting on the flop so she could reraise. Either way there has to be some potential that it would get checked around (so long as Nan checked) on a flop with 3 hearts.

Having said that, I'm certainly not saying you should slowplay a small flush in that situation; I'm merely showing an alternative play which might (but probably not) have left you not calling an all in bet on the river.

In your specific situation, I think you were right to play it aggressively, infact I might have reraised all in on the turn after nan raised you. Knowing Nan, I would'nt necessarily put her on a made flush, I think a rag ace hand is every bit as plausible, with the ace being a heart. Maybe she hit a pair and the nut flush draw on the flop, then hit 2 pair on the turn and was milking the pot where there were so few cards that could hurt her hand that could fall on the river. If you had everyone at the table significantly covered, you might have chosen just to call her bets down and fold if another heart hits and she continues betting (although in reality I think a 4th heart would have helped you not go broke in this specific spot) because you could have afforded to lose the pot and still be well in the game. This was'nt the case though, you had the same amount of chips as everybody else, so everyone had you covered give or take a few chips.

With the chip stacks much more even, as they were in reality, I like playing your low and vulnerable made flush a lot more aggressively. I would have committed myself to the pot on the turn most likely, trying to price out the flush chasers (Ah and most likely candidates). Once I had convinced myself that there were enough non made flush hands Nan could have to fit her betting patterns, I would have committed myself to the pot and hope for a fold or a call from a hand you're currently beating. Survival is more of an issue here because you will be left crippled if you do go all in and lose the pot...and you're definitely not folding your flush so you have to put yourself in the strongest position not to get outdrawn, which implies playing the hand very aggressively.

You could have played the hand conservatively, just calling Nans bets and folding if a 4th heart hit and Nan continued to bet, this might have conserved your chips better had a 4th heart hit, but I don't like this play because you have a good made hand that was worth trying to protect.

By the way, we can see that Nan might have been using level 2 thinking (google David Sklanskys multiple level thinking) and possibly level 3 thinking too. Remembering something like this against a player you play regularly can be very useful in future hands.

Sure it was very early in the tournament, but hitting a flush (with 2 flush cards in the hole) is a good enough hand to commit yourself to the pot; I don't mind that it was early in the tournament.

I also think that while the blinds were 10/20 and you had a stack of 75 BB's, it was'nt that big a mistake to call from 2nd position at a 6 handed table with a low suited connector. Sure, it may not have been deepstacked poker, but it was deepstacked enough to justify the play...just.

So how you can play this better is limited, in my opinion. I would'nt be so quick to play small suited connectors from early position, you are more likely to run into another player with higher flush cards, although this is very unlikely and does'nt happen that often. Once you made your flush, I would have protected your hand moreso, you don't want to be outdrawn and lose a big portion of your stack.

Other than that, you can consider yourself unlucky and put it down to one of those hands where you were very likely to go broke.
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Don't worry, we've got Neil Warnock!

[AcesJones]

The first piece of advice I can give Burr is try never to go broke in an unraised pot. The big/small blinds can have any 2 cards.

Secondly, whilst woody chooses not to play smaller suited connectors I play them aggressively preflop. Never limp into any pot because calling is a weak play IMO, and again you never know where you are.
Also playing cards this way will/should make your opponents play more premium hands, so small suited connectors are easy to get away from but can win you a big pot when played correctly and your hit.
I do agree with woody though that if your not sure where you are in a pot keep the betting to minimum and maybe just call your opponents down. This will stop the pot from building to large to take an all in bet. If however my opponent does go all in, like in this situation but played differently. Firstly you will not have committed too much into the pot, you don't have the nuts, and an all in would be an over bet so you can fold and wait for a better spot.
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"He who is not courageous enough to take risks will accomplish nothing in life."

[trahators]

i think you don't have to play this hand from that position. 56s is not very good hand.

[hylleberg]

I would have play the hand almost the same.

Playing 6- is ok, it is fine to limp in at these blinds.

But as sraz22 mentions you bet on the flop is too small. I normally always make a pot bet. This way I dont give any information on my hand. If I played the hand I would have put him on trips or flush draw.

Turn: Again I would have made a pot bet. But if reraised here, I would be reluctant to call. I assume that you are playing a SNG. You would still have over 1000 chips. So you have plenty of chances of winning the tourney.

It is ok to play 65s, but my experience is that it is best to keep out of "big fights" in the early stage of SNG´s and tourneys.

/Hyllebeg