Poker Hand Analysis - Loose Aggresive Player (Hand 1)

[gutshot]

As the title suggests I just wanted to create a new thread on this. As we know one of the best methods to improve your game is to deconstruct the hands you lost and understand any weaknesses in your play.

So last night I'm on paddypower on a 6 seat 50c/$1 been playing for just over an hour with all the original players. The table has been LAG on the whole with chips being passed around the table. I'd done ok so far increasing my $80 buyin to $135.

Well i'm under the gun with KQo and elect to raise to $3.50 and its folder around to the button who re-raises to $12 (he has me just covered with $155). Now over the past hour I'd noted he was a very aggressive player who had showed down several low starting hands and had shown a squeeze play he had made pre-flop where there had been a raise and a call, he raised then showed 45o. So based on my read of him I elected to call to and play the flop. I contemplated the re-raise but there are occassions when even aggressive players have good hands so I chose to call and see play the flop.

The flop comes Q84 rainbow, obviously a good flop for my hand. Going on my instinct that he was playing a low starting hand and his aggressive nature I elected to check-raise as he'd been continutation betting 82% of the time. However he also chose to check which sent warning signals to me that he possibly had a big hand, why would an aggressive player suddenly choose not to act at an unopened pot?

The turn brings a 5 with still no flush draw. I choose to bet to gain a bit of information (and hope to win the pot!), betting $15 into the $27 pot, to which he flat calls again. I'm fairly convinced I'm up against trips at this point and drawing dead.

The river brings a K giving me top 2 pair, however based on my read I'm not wanting to bet this hand and choose to check, to which he shoves. giving there's only $57 in the pot this looks an overbet, however given my read and the fact that I think this players good enough to try to act weak I let the hand go. He shows his 76o, hitting his gutshot straight on the turn!

Thankfully I went with my read and didn't stack off. However afterwords i went over the hand to see where i went wrong. I don't mind my call on pre-flop but I'm upset about my check. As I said I was hoping to check-raise, but realised afterwords that top pair is not a hand I should be check raising, plus I had never really defined where I stood against my opponent.

Any other analysis is welcome!

[fairfranco]

was he generally being aggressive the whole way through a hand or just pre flop?

Some people, myself included sometimes like to play a raise pre flop in order to cut down numbers but might not bet on nothing/weak draw when the flop comes.

Your right that a pair queens is a hand to bet especially given that flop, you anticipated his bet but the question at this point is do you want him to think you've got a queen?

the answer is probably yes, it's not like you've hit a monster hand and your only real draw is another queen or the king. Obviously on top pair you don't mind him calling but you probably want him to be thinking you have that queen.

sounds like a very aggressive player to be betting in with the 76o by the way!!!

[jwoody]

There are benefits to checking the flop, controlling the size of the pot so that any river bet (if proportional to the size of the pot) might not commit your entire remaining stack.

In this situation where your LAG opponent had a gutshot with only one paint card on the flop, he possibly would have called a pot sized bet on the flop thinking that he has the implied odds to chase his inside straight draw outs. I'm pretty sure in a high percentage of cases, the implied odds won't be there as I think you, Gutsy, have the ability to lay down hands if you think you're beat, rather than ploughing through with top pair in the hope that it's the best hand.

In this specific situation though, I think I would have tried to check raise him on the flop; if he had been contiuation betting 82% of the time then I would have tried to get a few more dollars in the pot before sticking him with a big raise, especially as he took the lead preflop by reraising, I would have expected him to continuation bet the flop if he had reraised preflop.

Against an opponent who is very LAG, I would'nt worry so much about them hitting a set, I would bet my top pair for value relentlessly and expect it to be the best hand most of the time, the other times when he hits a set or has an overpair he might stack me, but I'm going to get full value from him with most of my winning made hands.

Playing it this way, he can either pay me off when my top pair is good or fold his rags and save his money. If he calls big bets with nothing I'm getting huge value for my top pair hands, which should hopefully equate to far more money than the few times he hits a big hand and stacks me; I will hit top pair against him more often than he hits a set or better against me. If he folds his rags to your top pair bets, then you have a read on his play...he folds when weak and calls/bets when strong.

You could also bet your very strong hands and some of your rag hands (maybe only bet the rag hands against people who are likely to fold, so deffo not him!) similarly, making it harder for him to guage what your bet means. I would be looking to go to showdown with him as much as possible because I'm normally way ahead of his range.

I'm assuming he's not the type of player who will lay down his gutshot to top pair too often.

I wonder why, other than wanting to take a free card to hit his straight, he checked the flop too? Could your check on the flop smell like a check raising situation to him? If you had been continuation betting, or even check raising a lot of flops, maybe he was expecting a checkraise if he bet on the flop, so decided not to.

You were unlucky that he hit his 4 outer, you did well to get away from the hand, but maybe this is something your LAG opponent will spot and prey upon.

I would probably have made a crying call of his shove on the river with top 2 pair, so long as I was certain my opponent would consistantly make the same move with a busted draw / middle pair / top pair on the river.

I'm not a big cash game player, but that's my 2 cents.
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Don't worry, we've got Neil Warnock!

[rounder]

Personnally, I dont think you have done alot wrong. You have got a good read on the guy but started to over think what he's doing.

Thing to remember is that its not really a computer game, you are playing against other people in their homes. He will probably have is own read on you as well as your read on him. His check when you were looking to check raise could be the respect he has for you. He's thinking "Why are you not betting at this".

I think you gotta bet more when under the gun. At a 6 seater IMO you gotta bet to 5-6 times the BB. He could have easily put you on a weak Ace and tried to get rid of you. You dont raise back and then a Flop check. I gotta think you have nothing or everyting, so there would be little value in betting back at you while he can get a free card to his straight, that he hits. Now he hits his straight and you are bang in trouble. You have done well to get out.

I think sleeping against agressive players can be a hard way to play. As I say I would rather have seen a bigger bet or even going back over the top of of him when it was only the 2 of you left.

It is easy to say with hindsight what is the right and wrong thing to do. Im not a cash game player so take from it what you will. These are just my thoughts.

[The Shark]

Great thread

Not as experienced as most here..but such I great thread I wanted to shove my in.

Firstly Im not a big fan of KQo even short handed or being out of position against an aggresive player. So I probably would have folded against his re raise with that hand and waited for a better starting hand/position against him.

I understand what you were trying to do post flop with the check raise. If I had been in at that stage and was reading that he may have had low connectors then yeah that was probably the time I would have made it expensive for him - after that flop I wouldnt have been happy against him even with top pair so would have wanted to try and end the hand then. But thats probably why I dont play much cash poker!

[gutshot]

Thanks for all your thoughts.

I invite others to post hand's here too so that we can all better our play.

It doesn't have to be cash poker, S'N'Gs, tournaments etc. If you've played a hand and you're thinking how you might have varied your play, just put it down here with as much detail as possible and we can go through it.

[The Shark]

Sounds great gutshot - thanks

Wonder if we should have a different thread for each hand analysis or each situation type??

Then once we have a few more we can have a sub forum called Poker analysis or something...?

What would we call this thread though.... playing short handed against a loose aggresive player? Or just playing againts an loose aggresive player or??

[Murph1984]

Firstly,nice fold on the river

Good to see you were well aware that hitting your second pair in situations like this and the context of this board most of the time actually makes very little difference.Majority of the time your either ahead already or well behind,so it changes little(actually costs weaker players money cos they think they've hit the jackpot when they hit their 2nd pair)

Your raise preflop is fine imo(3.5x bb is the biggest preflop opening raise i would ever make,cash,stt ot mtt)

I think i would be folding to his re-raise tho.You dont really know what you want to hit on the flop calling a raise with KQ do you?

Your probably going to lose a big pot against AA,KK,QQ,AK,AQ and any pair below Q's that hit their set.

You may win a sizeable pot against KJ or QJ

When a pair smaller than Q's miss the flop and you hit it,not often your getting a sizeable payday.

And your out of position.So i would have folded pre-flop.

However,having seen the flop i think you played it great and lost the absolute minimum so well played sir

On the idea of more "hand based threads",i think it would be great.Would it be possible for the powers that be to add the 52 playing cards to "smileys"?Always makes for much easier to folow threads like this
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luck determines the cards,skill determines the chips

[gutshot]

Shark. I think this thread could be called LAG Hand 1, then any others that follow can be 2, 3 etc.

A sub folder for hand analysis would be great. I would certainly be a c contributor with many hands played, and where I lost my money!

[The Shark]

great - thanks

gutshot - Ive gone for a slightly longer one so its easier for me to keep tabs... is that ok? Perhaps we can loose the poker hand analysis bit when the sub forum is set up.

Murph - great idea on the smilies - I'll find out if that can be done - agree it would look great.

I'll try and lose some hands later so you can all analyse where I went wrong