HORSE RACING TUESDAY - CHAT

paulos22 · Group 2 Class Joined: 30 Dec 2005 Posts: 225

Lads,

Just have a Slight Cheeky Gander at Tommy Tates RUSSIAN GEORGE in the 2.15 Wolves.... Very Happy

Did a few pieces of work with CELTIC SULTAN and LATERLY last week! and was not disgraced!!! Finishing on the heels!. Wink

Normally Gallop Partner FASTNET STORM (Won at Beverley 24th June), Cant get near RUSSIAN.

Win

weerooney · Handicapper Joined: 19 Mar 2008 Posts: 15

yeah, i noticed it on the "steamers", its went "From 9 to 3.65 (59.4%)"

good luck Win

paulos22 · Group 2 Class Joined: 30 Dec 2005 Posts: 225

Yeah ive missed the boat... Only just up off night Shift.. So ive mopped up all the 11/4... 5/2....

MidasTouch · At Stud Joined: 13 Jun 2005 Posts: 2862

Hi All,

Had a bit of spare time today so thought I would cook up some stats for trainers & jockeys in form for a small wager Super Round Robin.

This bet is called a Flag in the states and is described as follows:-

Flag

A wager on four selections and consisting of 23 separate bets: 6 doubles, 4 trebles, 1 fourfold and 6 up-and-down bets. It may be considered to be a Yankee to which 6 up-and-down bets have been added. One winning selection will guarantee a return.

4:30 Nisaal jockey R. Hills @ 6
19:40 Red Cauldron trainer E J O'Neil @ 4.2
21:10 Spanish Conquest jockey S Sanders @ 4.4
21:20 Don't Be Bleu trainer P Bowen @ 5

We shall see how this goes? Ha-Ha

MidasTouch

weerooney · Handicapper Joined: 19 Mar 2008 Posts: 15

can you do these yankees on Betfair, or only sites like Ladbrokes etc?

jamiess09 · Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:04 pm Post subject:

what is an "up and down" bet anyone ive never heard off that one

Brucie · Handicapper Joined: 20 May 2008 Posts: 11

Good luck all you Russian George backers. Going back to yesterdays info about Red Moloney. Bad luck lads, but was it such a surprise that it lost. I am not saying that connections hadn't got him spot on, but the poor thing was carrying 10st in heavy going over 12f, giving 21 lb to some decent types. I always follow up the inside info on here and its much appreciated, but when I saw the weight and going I thought it was best left for another day. Smile

jamiess09 · Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject:

Red Maloney is better going further than a mile and a half for me

paulos22 · Group 2 Class Joined: 30 Dec 2005 Posts: 225

Brucie,

Money back in the 2.15! Win

Brucie · Handicapper Joined: 20 May 2008 Posts: 11

I think the up and down bet is what we call a cross bet up here in Yorks. It involves 2 selections. For example,
£5 win Russian George 2.15 Wolv.
X X X
£5 win Heritage coast 4.30 Pont.
You would write the bet out as above with the crosses in between. If both horses win you get your stake doubled to £10 win on each horse and your original stake back.
If only one of the horses win you get your £5 win, but lose your stake. It can be a nice earner with a couple of reasonable prices.
Sorry the crosses should be in the middle of the bet, but can't seem to manage to get them there.

MidasTouch · At Stud Joined: 13 Jun 2005 Posts: 2862

Hi All,

I posted the above info on a Super Round Robin in to Sports Live Radio on Sporting Life and to a certain extent exposed their lack of knowledge of the more complex race bets.

They have had to invite people to write in to explain which I have as follows:-

There are three doubles and a treble plus the three selections in 'Single Stakes About' bets in pairs. (NB Single Stakes About - This is similar to an any-to-come bet but it works in both directions - up and down on two selections - so making two bets.)

That then leads people to ask what is an Up & Down bet?

The 'Single Stakes About', or 'SSA' bet. The SSA bet is also known by the names 'Up and Down', 'Vice Versa' and 'Twist' depending on the part of the country that you are from. A £1 SSA bet on A and B could be written out longhand as '£1 win A, if cash £1 win B' and '£1 win B, if cash £1 win A'.

To settle an SSA bet with only one winner, take the basic factor for that winner, subtract one, and multiply by the stake. One is subtracted because the second part of the bet is a loser, and that one unit represents the stake that goes over to the other selection. With two winners, take the basic factor of both selections, add them together, multiply by two, and subtract two (to remove the two stakes that cross over to the other selection), and multiply by the stake unit

The most common bet that involves SSA bets is the Round Robin. This bet involves three selections in different races, and is made up of a Trixie (doubles and a treble = 4 bets) and three SSA bets (accounting for six stakes, ten bets in total), so a £1 round robin will cost you £10.

To settle a round robin with only one winner, take it's basic factor, multiply by two, subtract two, and multiply by the unit stake. With two winners, there is a winning double settled in the usual manner, and a four win singles, from which four stakes must be deducted. If the basic factors are A and B, the settlement is AxB + A+A + B+B - 42.

With three winners, there is a winning treble and three winning doubles, settled in the usual way as detailed above, plus twelve win singles, from which six ATC stakes must be deducted.

Variations on the Round Robin are the Flag (which is the same principle, but with four selections, 23 bets in total) and the Super Flag (with five selections, 46 bets). The general rule for settling a bet of this type with N runners with W winners is to take all of the basic factors, add them together, multiply by W, subtract Wx(N-1) stakes, and multiply by the stake. This produces a figure for the ATC part of the bet only, and the settler still needs to handle the doubles, trebles, and accumulators using the previously described 'additional point' method.

It is possible that in an ATC bet, that the first selection does not return sufficient cash to satisfy the stake on the second selection. For example, in the bet '£1 win A, any-to-come £5 win B', if A wins at 9/1, £5 is taken from the £10 returns to place a bet on B. If A wins at 3/1, there is only £4 to take, so the second part of the bet is understaked.

Now for the bad news, unfortunately most bookmakers cannot do manual calculations of simple bets let alone complicated bets and therefore they may not take Round Robin or Super Round Robin bets.

I am certainly not aware of any internet betting service that will take these bets?

MidasTouch

DJRevez · Group 3 Class Joined: 09 May 2007 Posts: 57

An upand down is also known as a stake about and double i do them quite regulary. last week had 15/2 with a 4/1 only a pound stake about and double cost 3 pound paid 51. Always choose above 3/1 so you will get your money back if you have one winner.

Doing one today. Big prices so not excepting both of them but you never know.

4.00 ponty glasshoughton
4.15 wolv splash the cash